Since 12-20-05
SS News Daily for 20DEC05
Since 12-20-05
The Daily Internal Information Source for the U.S. Navy Submarine Force
For more news and information about the
submarine force, visit our website at
http://www.sublant.navy.mil/.
Click
http://www.sublant.navy.mil/photo.html
To view photos from around the submarine force.
USS Annapolis Sailors Visit Bahrain
By Journalist 2nd Class (AW) Cassandra Thompson
House OKs Defense Bill That Includes Military Pay Raise
The Long-Stalled Legislation Preserves A Fleet Of 12 Aircraft Carriers And Aids The Newport News Shipyard
By David Lerman, Hampton Roads Daily Press 20 Dec 05
Conferees Place Cost Caps On DD(X) and Subs, Carrier Fleet Stays At 12
By Geoff Fein, Defense Daily 20 Dec 05
Navy Reassurances on Sonar Hold Little Sway With N.C. Panel
The Associated Press, 20 Dec 05
Bechtel unit gets $166M Navy sub deal
By Dan Reynolds, Pittsburgh Business Times
Veterans memorial wiped out by storm
The Associated Press
Rewriting The Code: Discipline Lapses Inspire A New Conduct Initiative
By William McMichael, Navy Times, 26 DEC 05
….Force Master Chief
(SS/SW) Dean Irwin of Naval Submarine Forces agreed. “You can’t just sit there
in the CPO mess and figure out what’s going on,” the senior Submarine Forces
sailor said. “You’ve got to talk to the young sailors… You’ve got to use a
continuous communication plan. And hopefully, we’ll start to see some benefits
from that.”…
Putin signs submarine dismantling bill
By The Russia Journal
Martin's tough talk prompts rebuttal by Tories
By Les Whittington And Bruce Campion-Smith, Toronto Star (Ottawa Bureau)
Midget sub discovery a red herring
By D.D. McNicoll, The Australian, 20 Dec 05
Want to subscribe to Submarine News Daily?
USS Annapolis Sailors Visit Bahrain
By Journalist 2nd Class (AW) Cassandra Thompson
MANAMA, Bahrain – USS Annapolis (SSN 760) finished a weeklong interlude in Manama, Bahrain Dec. 17 after docking for crew liberty and mid-deployment maintenance.
The port visit marked the midpoint of Annapolis’ six-month deployment as a member of the Theodore Roosevelt Carrier Strike Group, in support of maritime security operations (MSO) in the Mediterranean and Arabian Gulf.
MSO set the conditions for security and stability in the maritime environment as well as complement the counter-terrorism and security efforts of regional nations. MSO also deny international terrorists use of the maritime environment as a venue for attack or to transport personnel, weapons or other material.
Cmdr. Donald E. Neubert, commanding officer of the Los Angeles class attack submarine, said Annapolis had been tasked with several missions this deployment.
“We have the capability to conduct intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance type activities to provide information to the commander of the strike group,” Neubert said. “We can also conduct operations that would involve supporting the surface ships’ role for maritime security operations. And as a capable platform that is very possible to maneuver around quite a lot, [we can] overtly be in different areas so that we can assist the maritime component of the commander.”
Lt. Cmdr. Aaron M. Thieme, Annapolis’ executive officer, confirmed that the submarine’s schedule had been hectic this deployment. Despite the stressful nature of their operations however, and the fact that his Sailors will be separated from their families over Christmas, Thieme said the morale of his crew was “fantastic.”
“It’s tough being away for the holidays, but when we got here, we had a thousand pounds of mail, and it was all boxes and gifts from home, letters and packages. So that was a real boost for morale,” Thieme said.
He explained that Annapolis’ Sailors could send and receive email, even while submerged, so the crew was able to maintain almost daily contact with their loved ones.
“Also every day we have a calendar page, pictures from home and sayings, that one of the family members puts together,” he said. “That goes up every day in the passageway.”
USS Annapolis’ family support group contributed significantly to crew morale as well, Thieme said. Along with all the personal mail, the family support group had sent two full laundry bags containing care packages and holiday cards for the crew.
Sonar Technician 2nd Class Rich Hering got married in June, shortly before Annapolis left for deployment. His strategy for keeping contact with his new wife is simple.
“I sit at the computer and write her a letter every other day,” he said. “Then when we pull in, I print them all up and mail them off. She emails me almost every day, and I email her whenever I can.”
Hering, from Jacksonville, Fla., said despite all the “missing,” he recognized the importance of the Annapolis’ presence in the Gulf.
“I guess I’ll explain it the way I explained it to one of the junior guys who asked me why we’re here,” Hering said. “If somebody robs your house, you put up an alarm system, you put lights outside your house. If you still get robbed, you put up a fence, you get a dog. [The United States] put up lights in the interior and it still didn’t keep them out. So it’s time to expand the boundaries. That’s why we’re out here.”
“Being away from home; it’s tough and we get lonely,” agreed Chief of the Boat Senior Chief Electronics Technician Jon Smedley from Cape Coral, Fla. “But part of what I’m doing is to support [my family], to give them a world I think they should live in.”
House OKs Defense Bill That Includes Military Pay Raise
The Long-Stalled Legislation Preserves A Fleet Of 12 Aircraft Carriers And Aids The Newport News Shipyard
By David Lerman, Hampton Roads Daily Press 20 Dec 05
WASHINGTON -- After months of legislative gridlock, the House gave final approval Monday to a defense policy bill that preserves a fleet of 12 aircraft carriers, gives troops a 3.1 percent pay raise and authorizes two vital projects for Northrop Grumman Newport News.
The bill, which the Senate is scheduled to approve this week, provides for construction of another Virginia-class submarine and authorizes a contract for the overhaul of the USS Carl Vinson aircraft carrier.
The measure also adds $86.7 million in advance funding that is aimed at avoiding a oneyear delay in the start of construction of a future carrier. That ship was initially slated to get under construction in 2007, but the Navy has proposed a 2008 start and officials have suggested it is too late to resume the earlier schedule.
The mandate for 12 aircraft carriers overturns a Navy plan to mothball the USS John F. Kennedy next year. But Sen. John W. Warner, R-Va., chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, said the issue will likely be reconsidered next year because of the impact the Kennedy would have on the Navy’s budget and shipbuilding plans.
To keep the Kennedy in the fleet, the bill authorizes $288 million for required maintenance on the ship, which was commissioned in 1968 and is now Florida’s only aircraft carrier. If the Kennedy were mothballed, Navy officials have suggested they would move a Norfolk-based carrier to Florida to disperse the East Coast fleet.
In a pre-dawn vote Monday, House members approved the annual defense authorization bill by a lopsided margin of 374 to 41 before heading out of town for the year.
The bill had been stalled for months after Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., sought language to prohibit cruel, inhumane and degrading treatment of prisoners held in U.S. custody. That language was incorporated into the bill after reaching a compromise with the White House.
Warner, who helped broker the agreement, applauded the agreement on detainee policy that cleared the way for the bill’s approval. Warner said the language on interrogation guidelines “puts America’s policies into law and will further protect members of our military and their civilian counterparts as they perform vital intelligence operations.”
Conferees Place Cost Caps On DD(X) and Subs, Carrier Fleet Stays At 12
By Geoff Fein, Defense Daily 20 Dec 05
House and Senate authorization conferees decided yesterday to impose cost caps on several ship programs including DD(X) and the Virginia-class submarines as well as prohibit a single shipyard approach for DD(X) acquisition.
The conference report for the FY '06 Defense Authorization Bill increases Navy shipbuilding by $543 million to accelerate construction of CVN-78 (scheduled to begin construction in 2007), the LHA-R amphibious ship, the second DD(X), and an additional TAKE cargo and ammunition ship.
The report also directed restructuring and reducing the program budget for the Advanced Seal Delivery System by $43 million in procurement "as a result of continued cost growth, schedule delays, and technological challenges."
Conferees additionally required the Navy to retain 12 aircraft carriers in active service and spend up to $288 million to extend the life of the USS John F. Kennedy (CV-67).
Additionally the report includes $1.5 billion for nuclear refueling and complex overhaul of the USS Carl Vinson (CVN-70).
The bill, which was finished early Monday morning, is expected to be approved by members of both the House and Senate before it heads President Bush's desk for signature.
Earlier this year House authorizers capped DD(X) spending at $1.7 billion, an amount that caused concern among some in both industry and the Navy. The cap was half the original contract award amount (Defense Daily, July 8).
Senate authorizers did not include caps on DD(X) in their version of the defense bill.
Rep. Roscoe Bartlett (R-Md.), chairman of the House Armed Services projection forces subcommittee had pushed for the caps, but expected conferees to set the cap a bit higher (Defense Daily, Dec. 12).
The conference report authorizes advanced procurement funding for DD(X) and places a $2.3 billion cap on the fifth ship in the fleet.
Last month the Pentagon approved DD(X) to move into the Systems Design and Development phase (SDD) and gave the Navy the go ahead to acquire eight ships (Defense Daily, Nov. 29). General Dynamics [GD] and Northrop Grumman [NOC] Ship Systems will simultaneously build the lead ships.
The Navy intends to award a contract in 2009 to either both yards or a single shipyard for production of the remaining six DD(X)s.
However, conferees prohibited "the use of a 'winner-take-all' strategy in the acquisition (including design and construction) of the next generation destroyer."
Conferees also placed caps on Virginia class submarines at the current contract ceilings of: the USS New Mexico (SSN-779), $2.33 billion; SSN-780, $2.47 billion; SSN-781, $2.55 billion; SSN-782, $2.67 billion; and SSN-783, $2.72 billion.
The report also requires that the Secretary of the Navy (SECNAV) initiate a program to design and develop a successor to the Virginia class submarine. The objective is to develop a next-generation submarine, which either meets or exceeds the capabilities of the Virginia-class at a lower cost.
The Littoral Combat Ship (LCS) didn't escape unscathed, either. Conferees placed a cap of $220 million on the fifth and sixth ships (without mission modules). The report also restricted further acquisition of LCS beyond the first four vessels until the SECNAV "certifies that that there exists stable designs for LCS vessels."
Lockheed Martin [LMT] and General Dynamics are both vying for the LCS contract.
The report also authorizes the SECNAV to enter into advanced procurement, detail design and construction of the LHA replacement (LHA-R) to be funded in the Shipbuilding and Conversion account in FY '06, '07, and '08. The conferees withheld 30 percent of the funding authorized in FY '06 until the Pentagon has approved a detailed operational requirements document and the SECNAV certifies a stable design exists for LHA-R.
Navy Reassurances on Sonar Hold Little Sway With N.C. Panel
The Associated Press, 20 Dec 05
RALEIGH, N.C. - Members of a governmental panel appeared unconvinced by the U.S. Navy's reassurances that a sonar training range off the North Carolina coastline will not hurt fishing.
A Navy representative tried Monday to assure the Joint Legislative Commission on Seafood and Aquaculture of the safety of the range, which it wants to build 47 miles off shore from Camp Lejeune near Jacksonville.
The proposed 660-square-mile range would be used for training ships and aircraft in the use of sonar, a technology that detects objects under the sea by bouncing sound off them.
The range would include hundreds of underwater microphones anchored on the ocean floor that would record ship movements and allow exercises to be reconstructed for study.
The Navy has final say on the project, but the commission asked for a briefing.
Opponents fear the impact of the sound waves on marine life, saying they sometimes kill whales and dolphins. Environmentalists sued the Navy in October, claiming the stranding and deaths of at least 37 whales last January on the Outer Banks occurred after a mid-frequency sonar exercise.
"I don't leave this presentation feeling any better than I did coming in," said Rep. Robert Grady, R-Onslow County. "You say there is no evidence there will be long-term, significant behavioral disruptions on fish. You might find out later that there is."
The Navy says sonar is the best defense against a new generation of quiet submarines that can threaten coastal waters. It expects the new range to cause only mild disturbance to some whales and hardly any effect on fish or sea turtles.
Aileen Smith, natural resources manager for the U.S. Fleet Forces Command, said evidence supporting the safety of the range will be clearer once an environmental report for the range is complete.
"We need to bring more information forward to explain how we came up with those conclusions," she said.
But some at the meeting were unconvinced.
Representatives of the North Carolina Division of Marine Fisheries believe the Navy inadequately evaluated the impact its cables and microphones will have on coral outcrops on the ocean floor, which are important habitat for snapper, grouper and bass.
Sean McKeon of the N.C. Fisheries Association was unmoved by Smith's assurances that the Navy will seek various means to notify mariners about its experiments, and will schedule them around important fishing tournaments.
"There is significant uncertainty. I have not heard much that changes that uncertainty," he said.
Bechtel unit gets $166M Navy sub deal
By Dan Reynolds, Pittsburgh Business Times
A Pittsburgh division of construction and engineering giant Bechtel Group has been awarded part of a $166 million contract to manage the production of nuclear submarine engine components for the U.S. Navy.
The Naval Sea Systems Command, based in Washington, D.C. is the contracting authority.
The Pittsburgh office of Bechtel Plant Machinery Inc., an engineering project management division owned by the former Westinghouse Electric Corp., will perform 73 percent of the work and the remainder will be performed by BPMI's Schenectedy, N.Y. division.
BPMI employs more than 550 engineers and project managers at its plant apparatus division in Wilkins Township and an additional 330 people at its machinery apparatus division in Schenectedy. The division does not actually fabricate nuclear submarine engine parts, but oversees companies that do.
BPMI is a division of Bechtel National Inc., the San Francisco-based government services arm of Bechtel Group. Bechtel Group employs more than 42,000 people worldwide and is estimated to be the fifth-largest private company in the United States, with $16.3 billion in revenue in 2003.
Bechtel National also owns the Bettis Atomic Power Laboratory, which employs 2,000 people in West Mifflin. The laboratory performs work on nuclear reactors that power U.S. submarines.
Local companies such as Precision Defense Services Inc. in Irwin and Penn State Tool & Die Corp. in North Huntingdon are parts suppliers to the Bechtel National divisions.
Bechtel National acquired both the former Westinghouse Electric Corp. divisions in an April 1999 deal with CBS Corp. Westinghouse had purchased CBS in 1995 and CBS merged with Viacom Inc. in 1999.
Veterans memorial wiped out by storm
The Associated Press
OCEAN SPRINGS - Two benches face each other just beyond the Mississippi Vietnam Memorial Park, but the benches were the ideal spot to appreciate the USS Tullibee/Submarine Memorial before Hurricane Katrina.
The submariners memorial was ripped from its platform, thrown to the ground and broken beyond repair during the storm. Now the benches stare at vacant space rather than the names of American heroes.
"It got wiped out, but we are dedicated to putting it back," said Bob Hayes, state commander of the Submarine Veterans of World War II organization.
The granite memorial had a two-pronged mission: To list the names of the men who lost their lives when the USS Tullibee was sunk by its own torpedo and to honor all submarine veterans, especially those who served with the 41 for Freedom that were used to deter nuclear war during the Cold War.
Rewriting The Code: Discipline Lapses Inspire A New Conduct Initiative
By William McMichael, Navy Times, 26 DEC 05
Norfolk Naval Station, Va.– Last year’s discipline problems have become this year’s Navy code of conduct.
The Navy calls it Standards and Conduct, and the five point guidance is aimed at reversing what many senior leaders have seen as a distinct decline recently in the way many sailors conduct themselves, both on and off the job.
“Standards and Conduct is an important effort that continues the fleet’s focus on instilling and maintaining high standards in all our sailors,” said Adm. John Nathman, commander of Fleet Forces Command in a statement to Navy Times. “The effort is aimed at ensuring every individual and their chain of command understand existing standards and to ensure that they understand their conduct is expected to be on par with Navy and public expectation that all sailors comport themselves as professionals at all times.”
The relatively new initiative contains five areas of emphasis, none of them a new concept, which leaders as to reinforce:
• Pride and professionalism
• Operational excellence and safety
• Sailor relations
• Substance abuse
• A culture of fitness
“A few may perceive this as a passing matter. It is not,” Nathman wrote in a Sept. 16 “personal for” message sent to all Fleet Forces units and coordinated with Pacific Fleet, Naval Forces Europe, Naval Education and Training Command and Commander, Navy Installations, and released to Navy Times. “My experience has taught me that the ships, submarines and squadrons that have sharp, motivated sailors are most often the same units that are operationally ready and effective.
“Simply put, the standards you maintain are the outward reflection of your command and its readiness to fight.”
It was just more than a year ago that at least several of the admirals commanding the Navy’s six air, surface and submarine fleets simultaneously sent out scathing messages expressing deep concern over sailor conduct and seeking feedback from commanding officers on how to improve it.
“I have noted an apparent decline in the traditionally high standards of professional and personal excellence,” Vice Adm. Terrance Etnyre, then the two-star commander of the Atlantic Fleet Surface Force and now Commander of Naval Surface Forces, wrote in his Oct. 4, 2004, message to commanders obtained by Navy Times. “This assessment encompasses a broad range of issues, including safety, operations, military smartness and personal behavior.”
He said he’d seen an “increasing trend” in the number of domestic violence and sexual assault cases, some of them of the sailor-onsailor, or “blue-on-blue,” variety. In 2004, the fleet saw a number of high-visibility blue-onblue crimes, including at least three murders.
And while the problems “are down significantly from what they used to be,” Chief of Naval Operations Adm. Mike Mullen told a group of sailors at Naval Base Ventura County, Calif., on Dec. 5, “they’re still not down enough for me.”
“Every single one of those incidents is a tragedy in somebody’s life and I cannot abide just sitting back and watching that happen,” said Mullen, who sees a “police blotter” of Navy related serious incidents each morning.
“Nobody stands by to watch that happen.” Setting an example If Mullen and Nathman have their way, any “standing by” will be a thing of the past. In his message, Nathman has thrown down the gauntlet to Navy leaders to help promote the new standards up and down the chain of command.
“We need to help our people internalize these standards and, where necessary, clearly remind them of these standards through direct intervention,” Nathman wrote in his message. “Leaders – officers, chief petty officers and leading petty officers, led by you – should set the example on standards and be held accountable for instilling them.”
Force Master Chief (SS/SW) Dean Irwin of Naval Submarine Forces agreed. “You can’t just sit there in the CPO mess and figure out what’s going on,” the senior Submarine Forces sailor said. “You’ve got to talk to the young sailors… You’ve got to use a continuous communication plan. And hopefully, we’ll start to see some benefits from that.”
Sailors interviewed last fall seemed to agree with the high-level assessment that behavior and conduct were slipping, particularly in the failure by some to show respect to superiors. Nearly all personnel maintain that such problems seem nearly nonexistent while underway.
Senior officers, however, seemed reticent to tackle the question of why discipline because an issue. Mullen and Etnyre decline through spokesmen to comment on the new policy or on whether they perceived an improvement in behavior and conduct over the past 12 months. Mullen referred queries to Fleet Forces Command.
Nathman shared his fleetwide message and provided a statement to Navy Times. But his office declined to share any of the feedback gathered by Etnyre and others, instead granting an Oct 12 round-table-style interview on the policy with Irwin and other Norfolk-based fleet and force master chiefs.
During the roundtable, Fleet Master Chief (AW/SW) Jonathan Thompson of Fleet Forces Command took a shot at the underlying cause, saying he feels that the Navy “got out of phase a little bit” in recent years. He said the large number of administrative and operational changes over that period – such as the Fleet Response Plan, Human Capital Strategy and Sea Warrior – may have diverted leaders’ attention from their deck-plate leadership responsibilities. “I wouldn’t pinpoint it as one thing,”
Thompson said. “But I will sat that over the last three, four, five years, again, with the amount of informant and the technology, I think we’ve, as a Navy, with so many things changing and information coming from every direction, we kind of dropped [synchronization] on some of the basic core responsibilities of leadership.”
And it is the Navy’s top sailors, Nathman said, who need to lead.
“The fleet master chief and the other command master chiefs will be key to this effort,” Nathman wrote in his statement, adding that he has made Standards and Conduct a “priority.” Senior enlisted leaders, he said, “have been directed to outline an informative process to uphold the professional standards and the personal conduct we expect of our sailors.”
But making those talking points sink in will require reinforcement by sailors up and down the ranks, he and other senior sailors said.
“It’s not just the chief’s job,” said Force Master Chief (AW/SW) Rick Kennedy of the Atlantic Fleet Naval Air Force. “It’s the first classes, the second classes, standing at quarters in the morning or at shift change, reading the message. So it’s not a big secret.”
“This is not an enlisted thing, this is not a chief thing, this is not an officer thing,” Thompson said. “It’s a Navy thing.”
Putin signs submarine dismantling bill
By The Russia Journal
MOSCOW - Russia’s President Vladimir Putin has signed a bill ratifying an additional accord between the governments of Russia and Great Britain on the peaceful use of atomic energy, the presidential press service reported. The bill was approved by the State Duma and the Federation Council on November 25 and December 7, respectively.
The document underlines the UK’s assistance to Russia in dismantling Russian atomic submarines. The agreement was signed in London on June 26, 2003. It also sets guidelines for the two countries to cooperate on the prevention of weapons proliferation.
Martin's tough talk prompts rebuttal by Tories
By Les Whittington And Bruce Campion-Smith, Toronto Star (Ottawa Bureau)
AYR, Ont.—Prime Minister Paul Martin, who is scoring points portraying himself as a passionate defender of Canada, continues to talk tough on national issues as the Jan. 23 election campaign heads into the last week before a Christmas break.
"Arctic waters are Canadian waters and Canadian waters are sovereign waters," the Liberal leader declared yesterday when asked about a report that a nuclear-powered American submarine may have travelled through Canadian waters in the Far North last month.
"Canada will defend its sovereignty," Martin told a news conference, without elaborating. The Conservatives, meanwhile, say Canada has forfeited its sovereignty over the Arctic because its military lacks the ability to patrol the vast region.
"It's not good enough to say we are sovereign. We must demonstrate we are sovereign," Ottawa-area Conservative incumbent Gordon O'Connor said.
"This weak-kneed government for the last 12 years has touted soft power in international relations and allowed our military capabilities to decay," O'Connor told a news conference. "The navy cannot go into the ice, very few soldiers are capable of operating in the Arctic and the air force has little or no capability to transport the soldiers or patrol the area."
He said the Canadian Forces would be hard-pressed to respond to a major plane crash in the region or a terror attack on the region's energy facilities.
NDP Leader Jack Layton said the melting of sea ice could mean a "significant" increase in shipping and even military activity. "We should make sure that Canada has the capacity to be present in the North in the Arctic waters," Layton told reporters in Ottawa.
Defence Minister Bill Graham did not respond to the criticisms yesterday.
A naval expert, who asked not to be identified, said it's unlikely the sub traversed Canadian waters, except very near the North Pole. He said the channel between Greenland and Ellesmere Island is not a favourite for submariners because of shallow waters and heavy ice.
He said sub activity in the Far North has dropped dramatically since the end of the Cold War, when American attack subs and Russian missile submarines prowled the waters.
Still, he said, the sub trip does raise worries about Canada's ability to wave the flag in the inhospitable region.
Martin attracted national attention last week by squaring off against U.S. Ambassador David Wilkins over the American's intervention in the campaign.
Midget sub discovery a red herring
By D.D. McNicoll, The Australian, 20 Dec 05
A month after a live television documentary "found" the missing Japanese midget submarine from the 1942 raid on Sydney Harbour, the 24m-long, 46-tonne sub is lost again.
NSW Planning Minister Frank Sartor yesterday announced that NSW Heritage Office investigations found the sub-shaped lump of sand on the ocean floor off Lion Island, in Broken Bay just north of Sydney, was just that -- a lump of sand.
But the doco maker remains unconvinced.
"There is no submarine," Mr Sartor said, "Just a pile of sand. We are 99.9per cent positive there is nothing there."
Standing at the National Maritime Museum with a real submarine -- the decommissioned HMAS Onslow -- in the background, Mr Sartor said a final check, using a magnetometer, would be made at the site but that a sidescan sonar survey and a sub-bottom profiling survey had found no sign of the submarine.
The three surveys of the site will only cost NSW taxpayers $5000 because much of the work was done for free by the NSW Water Police and scientists interested in discovering if the submarine was really there.
"Filmmakers Damien Lay and Chris Berry are to be congratulated for reigniting interest in Australia's maritime heritage with their detailed investigation into this theory," Mr Sartor said.
"I directed the Heritage Office to immediate evaluate these claims and finally get to the bottom of the mystery -- but initial findings show the sea is yet to yield this long-held secret."
The missing Japanese midget submarine, known as M24, disappeared after a raid by three submarines on Sydney Harbour on the night of May 31, 1942.
Lay yesterday said he believed there needed to be further exploration of the site identified in his documentary.
"I still firmly believe it is there," he said.
"We are pleased that the NSW Heritage Office has undertaken initial surveys. However, we believe that further exploration of the site needs to be done to determine whether this is the location of the missing M24 Japanese midget submarine."
Lay said he didn't believe the submarine was intact after more than 60 years on the seabed.
"The Heritage Office seem to think that the conning tower should be sticking up out of the sand," he said. "I believe the submarine would be extremely deteriorated. There is probably very little still in existence."
Lay said legislation covering war wrecks had prevented him from exploring the site.
"But we know there is more than sand in this location," he said. "The only way to solve the mystery is to do a dig and see what is there."
Two of the submarines which attacked Sydney Harbour were sunk during the raid and later recovered from the harbour floor, but no sign of M24 and its two-man crew has been found.
A torpedo from one of the submarines sank the depot ship HMAS Kuttabul, which was being used as a floating dormitory, and 21 sailors were killed.
Investigations by the Heritage Office found that previously located Japanese midget submarines in Madagascar, Papua New Guinea and Hawaii were found upright on the sea floor and largely uncovered by sand.
The office also found that the natural depth of sand in Broken Bay was only 2m-3m, insufficient to totally bury a midget submarine with a hull circumference alone of almost 2m.