My first time drawing a gun in real defense...
Since 05-18-08
by
'darkenedsun827'
I'm still really shaken up by the events of this past Tuesday morning...
First off, I'll need to back track to four days ago, Sunday morning around
9AM, I walked out to my Nissan Xterra to get ready to drive to Church.
Immediately I noticed my door was slightly opened and both my center console
and glove compartment were left wide open. My sunglasses, CD's, and jacket
were thrown around the inside cabin. Now, the sinking-gut feeling soaks
in... MY CAR JUST GOT ROBBED! After inspection of the damage, two things
were found missing, my Taurus m617.357 snub-nose (glove box) and my Polish
P-64 Makarov (ctr console) nothing else was taken [including a $150 stash in
a seat pocket and two expensive pocket knives]. I called the police right
away, they took possible suspect fingerprints, filed stolen firearms reports
and I attempted to deal with my significant losses.
For the past several days, out of paranoia, I have been randomly scanning my
condominium parking lot in the middle of the night through my bedroom
window, just to see if there was anything out of the ordinary. Without a
garage, both me and my wife's motorcycles are, apprehensively, parked out in
the open next to our vehicles.
Now to the meat of the topic:
You won't believe what I saw Tuesday morning @ 2AM. (yes I randomly woke up
and looked out my window). There, between my Xterra and my Honda VTX 1800
cruiser motorcycle, stood a black figure lifting the door handles of my SUV
and then turning and hunching over, feeling through out the engine
compartment of my bike. Immediately I woke my wife up, told her to get her
cell phone ready and to watch me through the window as I approached the dark
figure. The closest firearm to me, which I grabbed, was my .50 caliber
Beowulf AR-15; clearly I was in a hurry to get outside and find out what
this guy was doing. Of course my wife quickly motioned for me to leave the
rifle and take my compact .45.
I threw on my pants, shoved the Taurus PT145 behind my belt buckle, and
grabbed my wallet and flashlight on the way out. As I approached my
motorcycle I realized now that the dark figure was now on his side laying
down along my bike's engine, with his back to me as he was tinkering with my
bike. When I got within 25 feet from him I turned on my flash light and
yelled in a loud voice "WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO THAT BIKE!!!" I can see that i
scared him as he slowly turned around to face me. As he mumbled some
incoherent excuses, he stood up, and let me tell you, I don't know if it was
just my adrenaline pumping or the lack of sleep but he seemed almost 7 feet
tall and formidably built. What was even scarier was the fact that once he
stood up he was quickly walking towards me with a very strange look on his
face. I noticed in his left hand he held a few a wrench and a screw driver,
but in his left hand was a fully extended box cutter-type blade.
"Is this really happening".............. that's the only thought I had as my
body started to move on its own. In one motion my right foot back-peddled
into a defensive stance, my left arm lifted my shirt, and my right hand's
thumb depressed the safety and the pistol was pulled to aim at my waist...
as I yelled, "STAND BACK!!!". At this point he stopped maybe 5 ft away. All
I wanted to do is squeeze the trigger, but a part of me couldn't justify
taking his life.... right then he immediately faced his side and mumbled
something as he slowly walked away. How weird is that?
During the whole time my wife had already called the cops and had a car
enroute. As I watched his retreat into the woods, my wife met me outside
also equipped with firearm and flashlight. A second later, me and my wife
noticed some movement in the opposite side of my building that looked like
someone running their way through the buildings and parking lot. Then all of
a sudden an he jumps into an SUV, it turns on and pops in reverse to exit
its parking spot. Not a moment too late, I could see a cop's squad car make
its way from the front gate of my subdivision. I flag the cop down and let
them know my wife was the one to call, and the we think the SUV, that was
now about to pass the cop, may have the guy inside. The lights turn on and
the SUV gets pulled over at the front gate.
To shorten this story, this is the rest of the events... the SUV gets
searched, the perps girlfriend (the driver) cried innocence like a maniac
and was ordered to go home, the perp's 17 yr old brother is driven home, and
the perp is arrested for a pathetic charge of Criminal Mischief... somehow
there wasn't enough evidence to charge for Attempted Robbery (even with the
freshly stripped ignition wires on my bike, the perp's flashlight left by my
bike and my positive ID!) Deep in my gut, I know this is the guy that took
my guns several days before, and he was just stupid and greedy enough to
come back for more. I doubt this guy is going to get anything more than a
small fee and be set free to victimize either me or someone else! Should I
have just shot him and not live in fear of a future incident from the same
guy, or would that have caused for harm than good? I'm so frustrated at the
situation!... How am I supposed to feel when this guy obviously has the
nerve to return to my neighborhood, with the possession of at least two
guns. This guy knows where me and my wife park? He might even know which
condo I live in.
Are the police that indifferent about me and my wife's safety, that they're
willing to ignore this criminal's blatant acts? Which is fine as long as
they understand that the next time this happens, I will be sure to not
hesitate to end this Idiot's career of crime; the guy is not going to be
able to walk away.
What do you think I should do? Any advice would help me cope with this
eye-opening experience. Regards and Appreciation.
************
REPLY #1... by 'mosseater'
I think the fact that you pointed a gun directly at him and he wasn`t shaken
up at all tells us everything we need to know. Sounds like you did fine,
though I`m no one to judge. Glad you`re all ok.
Biggest thing that jumps out at me is 5' is way too close. He could have cut
you to ribbons before expiring from a handgun wound, especially if he was a
"big`ole boy". Also, I`m pretty big on not confronting if I don`t have to.
He was after your stuff and only was directed to you by your own actions. I
know it would be tough to stand there and wait for the cops while he messes
with your bike, and I won`t tell you I would either. Hindsight is 20/20 and
quarterbacking is much easier from the arm chair. But, it IS only stuff. I
think I may have waited for the cops. A cop told me to use a camera when
ever possible. Preferably from a reasonable distance. The gun makes an
excellent back up and the camera speaks louder in court. I also like the
rifle idea. Some say a pistol should be used to fight your way back to the
rifle you never should have put down in the first place.
Sounds like you best be on your toes for a while, you interrupted his work
and he may not like it. Stay sharp.
************
REPLY #2... by 'youngda9'
At 5', facing a guy with two weapons, coming at me in the dark, after
obviously trying to steal my goodies....I don't know. Well, actually I think
I do.
You did well. 5' is way too close to let him get to you though. You should
have tried to keep him on the ground. And the second he came in your
direction, draw and order to stop. Any more steps should have been his last.
At what distance did you draw and order him to stop. Was it at 5'? Or 10'
and he stopped at 5'....please clarify.
You're alive and safe, so it was successful for you. Learn from it, and try
not to dwell on it too much.
************
REPLY #3... by 'Minuteman'
Since coming away from a critical deadly encounter unscathed is always the
goal, you were victorious. Glad you weren't hurt or had to take the life of
another, even if he was a low-life.
Nonetheless, I agree with the other responses here. Five feet is way inside
your safety zone. The best tactic, as already stated, would have been to
command the perp remain on the ground until law enforcement arrived. If he
advanced on you with deadly weapons or even just the intent to inflict
open-handed harm, you would have been legally and morally justified to take
him down. And regardless of justification, at that point, it would have been
your optimal reaction to insure your survival.
Before you even got yourself into that situation, however, is the better
approach to avoid the critical deadly encounter altogether. The perp was
only threatening your stuff, not your person. In that case, the better
option would be to call 9-1-1 and let the cops do their job. If they didn't
arrive in time, and the BG got away with your bike...that's what they make
insurance for.
Thanks for sharing your experience. This is how were learn vicariously.
************
REPLY #4... by 'rikard'
At this point, I think it's critical to closely monitor the events that
follow. Don't rely on the police to make this a high priority if you don't
stay on top of it. Did the guy get bailed out? What about his past record?
Has he served time? Surely this wasn't his first rodeo. I would want to know
about what type of investigation the detectives would be starting on him,
and when he goes to court; an event you definitely have to attend.
You said they fingerprinted the Xterra after you lost your pistols. What
about matching up the prints? I'd be talking to the Chief of Police about
why the girlfriend and brother, obvious accomplices, were cut loose at the
scene without at least being checked for warrants and correct I.D.'s and
addresses. My gosh, they were helping this thief in the middle of the night
at your residence.
I would be getting this guy's name and doing as much online background
checking on him as I possibly could. You'd be surprised what you might dig
up. If he's got a violent history, you need to know that. The longer you
wait to become proactive, the colder this dangerous event will become in the
eyes of the police. He could very well pay a fifty dollar fine and go right
back to his chosen trade of master dirt-bag.
Please keep us posted.
************
REPLY #5... by 'darkenedsun827'
I want to thank everybody for their advice. These past few days have been a
little overwhelming. I have been received a plethora reactions to my
experience, from family and friends (F&F), spanning the entire spectrum of
possible "you should of..." and "why did or didn't you...". I know a lot of
my F&F don't agree with my lifestyle choice of owning and carrying firearms,
so that's a struggle in itself to justify.
It seems that the critical event was the decision to approach the thief
while waiting for the police. I already had to make peace with the fact that
I lost 2 firearms that meant little more to me than owning any other tool or
piece of equipment. I knew then and know now that I will probably never see
those 2 guns again. With that said, I don't think I would be able to feel
and treat that motorcycle in the same respect. As materialistic as that
sounds, with that bike being my father's most prized possession, and my
father passing away, at the age of 48, a little over a year ago... I have to
say that I would not be able to stand aside and accept never seeing it
again. That's stubborn, I know. Other than that bike, there are only two
other things I would put myself in danger for, to protect and defend.. F &
F.
Do I think that 5' is way too close... your damn right!!! I get goose bumps
just thinking at how fast it escalated from a 25' buffer to 5'. Its scary
how it took me about 5' for him to stand up and approach me mumbling some
dumb excuse for being there, and 10' to realize what was in his hands and to
see his intentions on his face. At 10' away was when my shirt went up, the
order to "stay back" was given, and the gun was positioned to shoot, and
there he stopped 5' away. Way too close and no, it was not my intention to
allow him to get that close. I know now that it was my inexperience that
allowed for that to happen. Having gone through what I did, I believe in the
future I would act with more of a defensive mentality, and pay less mind to
whether or not what I was doing was illegal. It's a shame isn't it, I am in
the dark with a large man approaching me with a knife and I'm worried about
the legalities!
I spoke to the officers before they left the scene and they did their best
to convince me that since the thief knows now that criminal acts in my
parking lot will no longer be "easy pickin's" and will probably result in a
gun in his face, he will probably not be seen around here anymore. But trust
me, I'll be in high alert a long time to come. As far as the pending
consequences for the perp, I could use some advice on how to be proactive
and be taken seriously. I have been told that the more personal I make it to
punish the jerk, the more personal he may make it to repay his trouble. So
how do I get justice without putting me and mine in more trouble...
Thanks again guys. It means a lot to me to know I'm not alone in my choice
of lifestyle.
************
REPLY #6... by 'RangerVet75'
Ok, I've finished the story and have a few comments.
The facts are: You left the security of your home, at 2am, to confront an
unknown man/Bad Guy (BG). I'm not going to try and be funny here or
intentionally hurt your feelings, but I am going to "shoot straight", and I
hope a lot of people listen/read my critique:
* You did not prepare yourself to face more than one man
* You had no idea if the BG was armed, or what with, yet you still
decided
to leave a secure area (in doors) to challenge him
* You decided to take a pistol in favor of a rifle, although the
pistol is a poor
tool to stop a man and the rifle is most excellent
* You focused only on the man (tunnel vision)
* You failed to pick up (locate) his backup, who no doubt picked YOU
up
right away
* Your hands were empty when you challenged the BG
* Your original challenge to the BG was in the form of a question
* You slipped the safety off your Taurus before you cleared your pants
* You never told the BG that you had him at gunpoint... ie., "Freeze,
I have
a Gun" or "Stop or I'll Shoot!"
* You allow the BG to close within striking distance
So, to recap:
You intentionally put your life, and your wife's life, in danger as you
confronted at least 3 people at 2am while doing almost everything wrong that
I can see... but you didn't get hurt. You didn't shoot anyone. Your wife is
fine. Whatever mistakes you made, it seems to have worked, and that is the
bottom line. Nobody got hurt. You have (thankfully) another chance at
planning for the next event.
I gotta tell you man, your post freaked me out. You CANNOT get away with
stuff like that. Dude, you are lucky to be alive.
If that guy was a member of a crew, instead of trying to impress his
girlfriend and brother, you would have probably been engaged by the lookout
while you were walking across the grass, trying to get into position.
You don't understand that the real bad guys do not play like that "kid" you
met the other night. Real true bad guys, nowadays, kill anyone who tries to
make them stop doing what they want to do.
Sometimes we may be forced to "go stop the BG from stealing x,y,z", but you
have to have a plan on how you'll do it. You must never again do what you
did here. Please, please, please, for the love of God... look into getting
some training. Even if it is only one of those NRA "Valhalla DVD" training
packages (with names like "Combat Focused Shooting").
Realize that today's BG may very well be smarter than you. He is, in fact,
more experienced in performing criminal acts. He very well might be more
experienced in shooting (God help us). If you are really unlucky, he might
be a real gangbanger with 2 or more kills in his past.
And you had no idea who you were walking out to challenge. I'm sorry man,
but your post is a good example for all of us.
I don't mean to sound like I'm Chuck Norris and know it all. This is a good
thing, and I'm glad you posted it in such detail. This is how we all can
learn. If everyone who reads this picks out a lesson from this thread, then
we are all learning.
I only hope some more advanced people help us out here. That is why I paid
the $69... to learn how NOT to make these mistakes. I'll keep an eye on this
thread with hopes that the old guys hit it.
************
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